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Love your Horus Heresy battle reports, hope you keep them coming, it’s far better than 40K.

Gimme eldar and orks in 30k and ill never look back to 40k.

The game wasn't tested properly and there was extreme bias towards certain legions in 1 of the 2 testing groups. Flyers, superheavies were not tested properly to to lack of testers using the models or owning them. Spamming wasn't tested. Big volkite weapons were clearly not tested. Units were pulled from books or not in them as they forgot to put them in and panicked with last min pdf ie legacy units Lots of issues, I could go on but cannot say any more. GW is having to fix all this. It's a tidy up and they were given 2 years of free community testing. Panoptica have tested and fixed alot of issues for them for alot of things. So they will probably use alot of there fixes. It's unclear direction gw will go in but expect rebalance towards certain legions and fixing of flyers points and rules etc Its great to hear people's comments but you don't actually understand what happened with initial testing etc. GW doesn't want to be updating the rules so this new update they are doing is a one off to fix stuff. They are not happy about this situation but we're let down by external testers and specific staff as I understand.

scrap brutal, breaching, make all shooting reactions hit on 6s and make barrage/ordnance AP2 under the centre and the game should be levelled out.

Started in 8th loved it, then 9th came and I was a little annoyed but it was bearable, then 10th came out and I checked out completely. This year I got into HH and I am a happy camper. Loving it. A proper war game with direct ties to the lore I love.

I play Space Wolves in 40k and with the way GW are going I don't think they will be around as a unique faction of much longer, I have looked at HH and really like the setting, but every Space Wolves HH army seems to recommend Grey Hunters, and Grey Slayers. two upgrade kits that are out of production.

I must say, I have had more fun with Heresy than I thought I would. The depth of the armies, even though it is primarily Marine versus Marine, is surprising. I would like to see more balance between weapon options and I personally think Dreadnoughts need something of a nerf as they seem too powerful.

Really would love to see a Tallarn campaign book with Forrix and generic warsmith models released for Iron Warriors. Also more plastic things...

The cocaine induced brain trauma has never been more apparent.

Not keen on the GW policy if keeping the lines completely separate, especially for Mechanicus/m where they are supposed to be maintaining equipment to millennia old designs. Xenos would be the big one. Orks, Eldar... Even Votann. Plenty of people buy multiple 40k armies but are put off trying 30k as 'just marines'. Once they are in and they see the varied rules for militia and legions many will be hooked.

Since asking you Winters on your live stream last week avout fielding knights in HH, I’m going to start from there. Then I would love to field some lovely orkses along the line. The game sounds great - though I don’t want to paint marines.

I really hope the Edition isn't changing next year, However i think they should release an updated, more user friendly Rulebook and very substantial Faq and Errata in the book/free to download (including a full pass on points costs e.g not costing dreads the same as when they were 'Walkers' and got popped by a stiff breeze) next year. I think the Xenos thing is tricky right now and bring Heresy the same issues plaguing Old World because people subbing in existing armies from other systems on mass leaves GW in a really tricky spot (i know defending the huge Corpo etc). They had to drop Old World despite it being hotter than a ghost pepper in a neutron star because they had a new edition of AoS to launch. However i think Xenos are going to appear eventually. I think the 'Age of Darkness' rules should only get a new edition with a new setting, 'Age of Darkness: Badab', 'Age of Darkness: Armageddon', 'Age of Darkness: Apostasy' etc, and ALWAYs retain the 3rd-7th Ed. (WS/BS/AV, +(x)pts per model) core 'engine'. They could then branch out with supplements, This edition would wrap up with Siege of Terra, but i think it would be cool if the expansion books should be uncoupled from the core rules and present new smaller settings, for example the first string of expansion books would be for Heresy, despite entering the 'Badab' era (Badab would act as a great 'Interim edition'), 'Visions of Heresy: The Scouring', 'Visons of Heresy: The great Crusade (The first Xenos rules introduced)', then move on.

30k by a mile for me.

the reactions are dog shit

Little points adjustment for contemptors, tone down augury scanners a bit, maybe make reacting with heavy weapons a bit less effective... Problems solved!

Could not agree more, if they released codex Xenos, I'd be all over the horus heresy

I just pray to Omnissiah that HH will not become 40k which became very boring for me rules and constant updates wise. Give us plastic models, tweek rules a bit but I love libers that do not get changed every few months.

I love the rules, but I would like to see an expansion on the org lists, like they had in 7th with certain ones lending themselves to different unit types (spearhead for heavy etc.)

To be honest I love the evolving game and narrative, I grew up with 4th ed 40k when I was a kid, and there's things I miss about it for sure, but I like alot more than I dislike about how GW has gone forward with 40k. It feels like every few months something new is happening, which is really fun, even though sometimes it screws me, sometimes it doesnt haha. All the books, the forward trajectory, the games, the slowly evolving story with the new marines and the galaxy, it's all so much more alive than when I was younger. You can layer your own narrative on top of your battles and units, but I think if the setting is evolving alongside it just gives you more to work with. I personally wouldn't really want to trade all that for a setting 10k years in the past, with fewer units and armies. But I can understand those with a strong love of the older systems wanting it to grow - with less investment in the evolving story with the citrix maledictum and chaos on full tilt etc.

If they ran one of those subscription mags like conquest or mortal realms for HH I and probably a lot of players would try it out in a shot

I also love how for some legions , the specific rites of war combine really well their style of fighting, especially when adding in certain characters etc.

Wouldn’t mind seeing the “Go to Ground” rule again

HH is the best, not played 40K since … it reminds me of the old 40K rules before it went tournament focused.

Everything you said is golden if they had a clue they would hire you!

I love HH, but my true hobby passion unfortunately is in the 40k setting, not the 30k setting. I can not just shift that passion with a flick of the finger. I have big 40k armies (like many here surely do), but zero interest in the current ruleset. I did start a 30k army (Emperor's Children) when the 2.0 rules came out, and I am still slow-growing it to 2000 points, but I'm just not as invested as I am in my decades old 40k armies with all their self-written lore, the fond gaming memories, the custom characters, the years of hobbying. Maybe time and experience will change that, but I fear my nerdy, nerdy heart will always ache for the 41st millennium and its grimdark whackiness.

Another great game from GW is The Old World. You should try it if you like HH

I’m almost done with my ec army and I’m waiting for the phoenix terminators and kakophoni squad to be in stock

Started watching your videos. I really like how you guys make it really easy to follow along with whats going on! My own game is stronger just watching you two do stuff!

Codex xenos please please please

The horus heresy is sooooo good i just wish there was some things taken from 9th stratagems & command rerolls and items lastly the faction specific subfactions i miss my valhallen three main characters rocking perks+items and the militia strat send in another wave 🤘

I'm no knife-ear lover... but that eldar paint scheme is awesome. Red, black, and gray are some of my favorites and these look so sick.

Watching this as I am finally building my first 30k army. Got into the lore and hobby about two years ago because of 30k Fists, then got distracted as friends got into 40K. Cannot wait to have my army built and painted so I can try out Heresy.

Hey Winters. I am seeing a split in our GW player base (and I am old having played since '92) - there are the fixed systems and lists (HH and Old World) and then there are the "live" games (40k and AOS) where you chase the Meta even as a casual player. Then you have the Specialist Games like Legion Imperialis (which as an old Epic player I absolutely love) and even Warmaster which is having a rebirth in Australia through the fan-based Warmaster Revolution. So yes, FAQs and Erratas are good for these "fixed" and "specialist" games, please understand the audience and keep the rules and lists as they are, and narrative based.

New thing that would be cool would be a lot more emphasis on the mortals of the setting, and a more sensible reaction system for interaction. A few things like monstrous-creature dreads/speeders just need to be rolled back tbh. They've never found a good response to the AP/Sv issue for heresy, and my biggest change would just be to go to the fantasy system where AP modifies armour saves but your invuln is taken as well as the armour rather than in place of.

NEW LAYOUT - that's for sure. Rulebook for 10th edition of 40k is a great example of quality layout (well almost). You look for rules where they belong. I am so tired that 30k universal special rules in different than wargear section with their special rules. And weapon profiles - good lord - can you make it tighter on 1 or 2 pages please. And honestly - get rid of fluff text in a rules sections. I like all the fluff text for 1 unit be located in one section. Heck - it would be even better to have a picture/photo of unit than fluff text to certain rules. Another thing I WISH to be changed is AP system. I want it like in 9-10 edition of 40k. I am so tired of ap3 vs ap2 debate. I am so unpleased that so many weapons still unrelevant due to this disparity of efficiency. Armor save system is so convenient and meaningful to the game - I can't stress how it's great for weapon diversity and how heavy armour feels. In current Heresy there's basically only 2+ save or 4++/5++ The last one is wording on some rules. Honestly I would prefer basic short-texted rule - and extended glossary with full text and explanation/commentary - but not the full accuracy-proofed wording on a whole page. It's a great thing to have as much detailed rule as it's possible - but as an extended explanation - not as basic entry. I feel like it's the most natural way for newcomers - start with basic ruling and then get more complex and detailed.

A new edition? No fuckin thank you! Theyll just ruin it to dumb it down for dadhammer. How about a 2.1 errata instead?

One of my fave headcanons is that one of the lost legions was lost by foolishly trying to "cleanse" the "mutant civilization" of a heresy-era Votann state, so I really dig the idea of a codex xenos ^v^

I get where you're coming from but I sincerely do not want xenos in heresy. They were NPC punching bags to add a little spice to the story and make no sense as playable armies in the game.

I want to start a heresy army but most parts that I was planning to get (helmets special units etc) are out of stock in Europe. Without those I can't give my legion any flavor which is quite a letdown.

Heresy seems so boring because of the lack of non-marine armies. I'd love an epic 40k. Nids ftw.

I feel as long as Heresy stays away from the competitive scene it will be fine . I am not a fan of it,but I hope it stays away from tournaments.

Th fans have done a fantastic job of coving the Xeno races rules wise. Orks and Eldar are pretty must 100% finished by various groups, all very good and fluffy. Would be nice to see GW's take on it though. I stopped playing 40k after starting in 8th, as it was insane the number of rules changes. Heresy is a nice steady platform, i can build an army, i can build lore for my group, and i can tell a story with every battle. It also helps i can leave the game for a few months, come back and still pick up and play without issue. Moving to a 40k style release/rebalance system would kill Heresy for me 100%. Heres to hoping against hope they don't move in that direction.

Horus Heresy 2.0 is a hot mess, rules wise. What are you smoking with that opening statement?? Some things just straight up DON'T WORK. Emperor's Children corrupted rules are non-functioning, artillery is useless, internal balance is bad, some units are borderline wortheless, etc, etc, etc

I love HH. I sold off almost all of my 40k stuff to fund my HH and Legions stuff. I came into the hobby during 7th and havent enjoyed 40k since they did the big chances from that. Like the artist in the Fulgrim book (paraphrased); Its is the imperfections that make the art perfect

Hopefully Heresy is on a slower cycle than their other game systems. I mean how many years were there between 1.0 and 2.0?

Another edition treadmill will be the end of 30k for me. It has already killed my interest in 40k.

I concur